Retensionable Frame Rocking

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spankthafunk
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Retensionable Frame Rocking

Post by spankthafunk »

I have recently purchased a retensionable frame to try out. I love the device because I really see how it helps in printing. But after watching every video on them I can find, my frame still rocks. Sometimes it's a little rock, and sometimes it's a heavy rock that I can get down ot a little rock. But I have never put the frame on plate glass and not have some sort of rocking.

I have checked my table for flatness.
I have tried every method to get the rock out
-- Pull out squeegee and push gently down
-- Unlock one bolt and put pressure downward
I have tried both tight bolt adjustments and loose bolt adjustments.
I have measured and measured time and time again to make sure I'm parrallel to the rollers

But all in all, I can't get the rocking to stop. I know this is important because everytime my prints come out I have different amounts of ink deposits. Can anyone help? :x
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ROADSIDE
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Post by ROADSIDE »

What brand of frame are you using?
Are you using a torque wrench to tighten the bolts?

My frames are like changing a tire. You have tighten them evenly.
There is a science to the pattern... like if corner #1 is off the table loosen corner #3 till the screen is flat then tighten evenly (not saying that works. just an example)
.... I can give you my opinion but I can't tell you if it's right or not.
spankthafunk
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newman roller frame

Post by spankthafunk »

i'm using the newman mzx's. i have tried that method and it somewhat helps, i think tonight is the closest i've ever been when put on the plate glass.
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Re: Retensionable Frame Rocking

Post by spankthafunk »

anymore ideas roadside? i'm making another and just can't keep it from rocking. i'm using 83 mesh right now.
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Re: Retensionable Frame Rocking

Post by spankthafunk »

i havent even started tensioning and the frame is already rocking.

am i starting with the mesh too tight when i put the mesh on?

is there something i am missing before i start putting the mesh on?

should the bolts be tightened before putting the mesh on?

how hard should the bolts be tightened? i have a torque wrench but it doesnt always seem accurate.

:(
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ROADSIDE
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Re: Retensionable Frame Rocking

Post by ROADSIDE »

with all the bolst loose... there shoold be some play in the mesh before you start to tension.
I had a tutorial... but I cant find it.

I am going to be teaching my new assistant how to tension screens next week so I will snap some pictures.
or maybe a little video.

Until then ... practice practice practice
.... I can give you my opinion but I can't tell you if it's right or not.
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Re: Retensionable Frame Rocking

Post by spankthafunk »

Ok well I was thinking about maybe taking some video too and showing to see if anyone can spot what I'm doing wrong. This is my process

1) Start with the frame flat on the table. I tighten bolts in the desired positions. No Rock

2) I overlap the mesh and put in the clips. I check for parrallelism on all four sides.
how much should mesh be overlapping around frame?
when I do this step, the mesh pulls on the frame a bit and creates a rock.

3) So I untighten the bolts, which sometimes causes the rock to become greater. I then try pushing down on the corners in all sorts of different ways. Unloosening bolts, using something to levititate the screen to push on each corner, and so on.

sometimes i wonder if some of the rock is caused by the mesh being under the frame. it seems that would cause natural rock because the mesh is between the table and the frame

4) I began tensioning on all four sides. No matter what one of the corners will come up, sometimes 2 or 3. I've had full sides be raised before. So I then play the game of going around all the bolts, loosening and retightening to figure out what is going. After about 2 hours into my first tensioning i get frustrated and just take what i got.

sometimes that's not too bad, but it makes a big difference in printing. i know it does beause i get the snapping of the shirt, ink under the screen, orange peeled shirts, and so on. it seems to me this is one of the most important parts and the one thing i have most trouble doing. i just want to get it right so i can focus on more things that i want to focus on, like making a great piece of art or mixing up that right amount of paint. i waste so much time trying to get this right, and when it's not right, it shows.
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Re: Retensionable Frame Rocking

Post by Munkie »

I curently use pnuematic stretchers. I would suggest that you get an old picture frame and some glue.
Then when you get the proper tension on the frame. Place over the picture frame upside down. Weight the roller frame in place then glue through the mesh to the back of the frame. Using the roller frame like a larger stretching machine. Would help until you get enough practice to make the other easier for your self. If this was unclear I can repost when get next break.
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Re: Retensionable Frame Rocking

Post by spankthafunk »

Munkie, could you please elaborate a little more? I think I understand what you are saying. You want me to glue the mesh to the wooden frame?

Also. what are pneumatic frames? I am trying to do this out of my apartment until I can make some more capital to move into a house with a garage and buy more equipment. Needless to say, I'm fairly new.

I put my first tension on the frame last the night I made that post (the night before last?). I then had to go to work so I decided to try putting the frame on the table and lay books on the four corners. I am using 83 Mesh, and I don't know yet if that's just easier to get flat than the 110 and 160 I've used before, but the rocking seemed to dwindle quite a bit. I just reapplied my second tension and the rocking wasn't that bad. I'm thinking the small amount of rocking that I am getting may be from the mesh interfering, because I have not yet trimmed up my mesh (it's my last piece until I can order some more). I guess putting books might be a tool to help me until I can get some more experience doing this. That leaves me with two questions:

1) can the mesh be causing the little rocking?

2) is a lower mesh number easier to get flat ? (i'm thinking less threads cause less tension? again, I don't have a meter just yet).

Thanks for all the input!
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Re: Retensionable Frame Rocking

Post by Munkie »

First you are definatly a beginer. That's allright we all have to start somewhere. Pnuematic stretchers sound like a couple of years down the road for you. Basically does the stretching for you. Now I don't know of any mesh that can cause frame rocking so I don't think that is it. Books wil probably help alliviate the problem a little bit. I don't think you have any idea how many newtons you are trying to stretch too. So I will guess this is by feel. I don't have as much experiance with roller frames. Sounds like you just mostly need practice. So glueing frames might help. Could also help your inventory of screens. Save time and money in the long run. Now what I mean is to take a existing frame. I use mostly aluminum frames. Wood works very well just can't hold higher tensions. Place the frame upside down. Make sure it is alittle rough on the bottom sand or grind underside. Then take your pretensioned roller frame. Upside down as well so the mesh is in great contact with the new frame. You will actually be able to see this well when you look at it while you set down the frame. Then if there is any not so great contact area. Place weights or books inside to make contact better. Then when all looks good. Glue the frame. Takes alittle practice. I currently use mostle Nazdar Kiwobond 930 adheasive. Pretty smelly if your in an apartment. Other glues will work wonders though. let glue dry cut frame loose then you are all set very flat frame. Hope that helps. Feel free to contact me directly. If you have anymore questions.
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Re: Retensionable Frame Rocking

Post by d fleming »

For a person new to screenprinting trying to use a retensionable frame in an apartment setting is killing a mosquito with an ax. Buy aluminum pre-stretched frames from melray or tubelite or whoever and get to learning about your press and technique. Worry about retensionable when it might actually mean something to you, like when you have an automated press in a large shop. The aluminum frame will not warp and deteriorate like wood and if you screw it up you can send it to be restretched. Personally I use cheap wood frames from melray and have a bonfire once a year. They are well built and hold up fine for vectored work. The price melray charges for my wood frames(t's) and metal (flatstock press) make it a waste of my time to stretch fabric myself when I could be "smashing ink through a rag" ( Bob Stephens, RIP) :mrgreen: .
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Re: Retensionable Frame Rocking

Post by ROADSIDE »

Nice post D
.... I can give you my opinion but I can't tell you if it's right or not.
spankthafunk
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Re: Retensionable Frame Rocking

Post by spankthafunk »

sounds good. I really want to try and get this though because it seems like the advantages are so great. wouldn't a wooden screen also give you rocking and other problems due to mesh not being tensioned enough?
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Re: Retensionable Frame Rocking

Post by ROADSIDE »

wood will start rocking over time..
Aluminum is all I use anymore.... www.Melray.com

Your wasting so much TIME with the re-tensionables that your are already losing money... ;)
.... I can give you my opinion but I can't tell you if it's right or not.
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Re: Retensionable Frame Rocking

Post by spankthafunk »

wow I'm impressed but I have so many questions.

1) is it more cost efficient for me if I am only doing a couple of orders a month.

2) i assume you can reclaim these screens just like any other screen. how often do they need to be changed out?

3) do the frames not develop any kind of rocking or crookiness when being shipped?

4) do you buy or rent the frame and then use their service to stretch it? what happens when i want to upgrade to retensionable screens, can i sell back the frames or what do i do with them?

i will definently give this a shot because it looks like they really have their concepts together.
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Re: Retensionable Frame Rocking

Post by ROADSIDE »

wood frames can be re-stretched but they usually rip, get destroyed from reclaiming or a number of other reasons.
when your are done with them.... I like D's idea of burning.

metal usually last longer. I have some frames bend but thats what happens when you throw them at the shop hand.

I have used some screens for 2 - 3 years and 1000's of prints without changing a thing.
I have also had screens that I have used once and the they ripped or came unglued.

You take the good
You take the bad
And there you have....
The facts of life
The facts of life!
.... I can give you my opinion but I can't tell you if it's right or not.
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d fleming
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Re: Retensionable Frame Rocking

Post by d fleming »

"metal usually last longer. I have some frames bend but thats what happens when you throw them at the shop hand"
:twisted:
Nothing like a 4 foot squeegee from the old one arm!
:shock:
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Re: Retensionable Frame Rocking

Post by spankthafunk »

thanks everyone, I think I'll give them a try when I get some extra cash.
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